So I went into DLR for the 1st time in a while the other day - I think last time was 3.7, not sure.

And oh wow. What the actual hell. Kept wiping at 25%.

First off - my ally was prepared and geared:
2x full MR pve temps (2400+ w/o SW buff, before stance) kiting,
2x MR pve clerics on temps (2500+ w/o SW buff),
1x MR or HP cleric on dps group,
2x chanters or maybe 1 SW 1 chanter (one dps, one MR support)
Assorted DPS (at least one plate to tank), all high dps (4.x stat levels)
Fire+earth scroll, ele def food, candy, 8k dp, rez stones, teamspeak etc.
We all know the add timings, we were waiting for an AoE+stun at 25% (didn't see it)

I'll note that losing Summer circle/protection mantra hurts. Also 2 templar aoe taunts were merged, and we lost morale wave, so holding aggro on 20+ adds is very hard now. On the plus side dps is way higher than back in the day.

On dps - anyone know Tiamat's stats? Melee is with 1200 crit, magic has 2100+ ma, is this too overkill? Are we hitting MB cap, should magic classes migrate to crit spell? Should melees socket more attack?

I noticed that a temp with Stubborn up gets hit by the add skills for 3700. Other classes get hit for 4200+ (can't remember exact value). The only explanation I can see is +700 M.Supp from Stubborn - but I really thought M.Supp did nothing in PvE. I will try a glad with Magic Defense socketed later, see what difference that makes.

Finally - runs seem to fail at 25%. There is no aoe stun; just a 3rd wave of adds, with 20+ adds swarming some inevitably escape the temps and attack dps/clerics, as soon as one cleric goes down dps wipes (if cleric self-rezzes he often gets instakilled by add/aoe). If clerics pop big CDs/BP/Acquittal they just attract more adds and go down faster. Temps literally cannot keep all the adds under control.

So: thoughts? what can we do better? What has changed since 3.x? (We are using http://z3.ifrm.com/131/49/0/p461345/index.html as a loose guide). Different group composition? More heals, more tanks?

MR is capped at 50% now - that REALLY hurts us. Maybe M.Supp is a more reliable way?
Maybe the tanks just need to practice controlling so many mobs, and there's nothing else for it? In which case a 12-person run rests on 2 people's shoulders :(

Anyone succeeded DLR since 4.8 came out? What worked & what didn't?